Why Interviewing for Internal Roles May Be the Key to Your Next Career Move

In many organizations, people are promoted because they’ve been in a role for a while, and they know the right buttons to push or the right people to work with. And I think that’s a problem.

Don’t get me wrong, I think internal promotion and giving people a career path is fantastic! Study after study has shown how important professional development and career growth are to retaining talent, especially younger generations. The point isn’t to say we should stop promoting people internally, but I think that people should be interviewed, even internally, when receiving a promotion.  

I can hear your comments now. “I shouldn’t have to interview for a position I’ve already earned” … “Interviewing for a promotion is just an extra hoop to jump through” … “I hate interviewing! If they make me interview, I’m going to tank and lose out on this opportunity.” I get it and I think your concerns are valid and should be considered as these processes and policies are implemented. But what you don’t realize is that the organization is doing you a disservice by not interviewing you for the role. Hear me out.

In my role, I’ve had an opportunity to help people move from one organization to another. Whether that’s hiring them into my team or coaching them through their job search process. One of the biggest challenges I’ve seen from people is their inability to articulate their value in an interview. “Why should we hire you.” It’s a common enough question but so many people swing-and-miss on this question and it’s such a critical answer for you to nail!

I’ve heard plenty of people mention how they are self-starters, self-learners, quick learners, self-motivated, team players, great communicators, etc, etc. These are likely all true and possibly valuable. However, why would I hire you, a self-starter who loves to collaborate, over someone else that expresses the same thing? There needs to be more definition, a finer point, or a better way to communicate your value.

And here is where interviewing for internal roles comes in.

When organizations interview for internal roles, it gives you the opportunity to practice articulating the “why me” answer. It gives you the chance to self-assess and look for the core nuggets of why you’ve been successful and then how to articulate that to other people.

There will be a temptation to simply point toward the projects you’ve run well or the team that has grown under you. The problem is that those examples don’t get to the core of your value add. Great, you ran a project well, but what was it about your skillset and unique ability that allowed you to do that? You’ve got to dig deeper and articulate something specific and unique.

So how do we do this and what does it look like? I’m so glad you asked!

You think you work well in team environments and that is a reason someone should promote you or possibly hire you. But when is that true and when has it not been true? Do you work best when teams are made up of certain people or in certain environments? So you refine your answer to “I’m a great team player with people who love to dream and cast vision”, but why is that true? What is it about working with them that you enjoy and that makes you so valuable in that environment? You refine further. “I love working in a team environment with people that cast vision and dream well because I don’t do those things well.” We’re getting closer but we don’t want to end on a negative. Plus, we need to go one level deeper. So instead of saying “I’m a great team player” you can say “I work well in team environments with individuals that cast vision well. I’ve found that my skill is in taking someone else’s vision and making it a reality. I love refining and executing big picture thinking and I work well in environments that include that.” You don’t just work well in team environments, you’re an executor and refiner!

For myself, I could just say “I’m curious and I like to ask questions”, and that might be a bit unique but it’s far short of what it could be. My answer is “I’m incredibly curious and love to ask questions. I’m very comfortable being the dumbest person in the room and asking the questions that everyone thinks but no one wants to ask. My questions typically help teams investigate assumptions and norms to ensure everyone is aligned and on the same page before moving forward. Simply put, you should hire me because my curiosity can help your organization improve communication and move faster by uncovering the unanswered questions.”

This type of self-assessment and ability to articulate your unique value can lead to greater confidence and impact, even in your current organization. When you don’t interview for internal roles and promotions you miss out on the opportunity to assess why you’ve been successful, find a way to articulate that and practice your answer well before trying to land that dream job, possibly at another organization.

Whether you’ve been with an organization for 2 years or 20 years, do yourself a favor and practice your answer to “Why should I hire you”, your next career move may just depend upon it!

At Call Design we believe that employees have the right to be happy, engaged, fulfilled, and aligned at work. Part of finding fulfillment at work includes knowing what you’re good at and what you love to work on. If you’d like help discovering your unique skills or being able to articulate them, please reach out and let us know. One of our coaches would love to work with you and help you find fulfillment at work!

Planeación de horarios durante la temporada de festividades: ¿estás listo para la época más maravillosa del año?

La temporalidad de festividades del Q4 ha llegado, ese momento del año cuando las demandas puestas sobre el equipo de Workforce Management (WFM) presentan más retos. Llegan uno tras otro: Acción de Gracias, Black Friday, Cyber Monday, Navidad, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa y Año Nuevo, cuando los centros de contacto deben equilibrar los extremos de lo que quieren los clientes y lo que quieren los agentes.

En nuestra lista de deseos para este blog: consideraciones de planificación específicas que pueden ayudar a su equipo de WFM a lograr ese equilibrio esencial y ganar la temporada navideña del Q4.

Su equipo de WFM (el regalo que sigue dando)

Hasta el peor Grinch de un contact center tiene que reconocer el papel fundamental del equipo de WFM durante las fiestas. Su experiencia y sus conocimientos en la resolución de problemas desempeñan un papel fundamental a la hora de determinar si las vacaciones de un contact center serán felices y brillantes o se convertirán en una Navidad azul.

No se trata sólo de satisfacer las demandas de los clientes, sino también de garantizar que sus agentes dispongan de la flexibilidad necesaria para pasar tiempo con sus familias. No se necesita la magia del Winter Warlock para que tanto los clientes como los agentes estén contentos: una planificación y una comunicación adecuadas pueden hacer que funcione.

Analicemos cuatro categorías clave que le guiarán a lo largo del proceso: Pronósticos, Planificación, Tecnología y Coordinación con otros Departamentos.

Pronósticos (No todas las festividades son iguales)

Los pronósticos son la base del éxito del cuarto trimestre. Revise los volúmenes de las fiestas anteriores, las mermas y cualquier cambio en el comportamiento de los clientes durante la temporada. En estos tiempos de cambio, compare los datos de varios años para crear un pronóstico más preciso. Recuerde que no todas las fiestas tienen el mismo impacto previsible.

El Día de Acción de Gracias es normalmente más fácil de predecir ya que es un jueves, al igual que se sabe en qué días caen el Black Friday y el Cyber Monday. Sin embargo, la fecha real de Acción de Gracias cambia, y si su sector tiene ventas a final de mes, puede que se encuentre en un entorno promocional de Cyber Monday + Fin de Mes. Navidad y Año Nuevo también son un reto para proyectar con los días flotantes y los días observados que van junto con ellos, impactando el volumen de diferentes maneras dependiendo del día de la semana en que caen, y cómo cambia de año en año. La clave está en considerar cómo los días festivos pueden ser los mismos año tras año, y cómo pueden cambiar en función de las nuevas promociones.

Programación (Una cucharada de azúcar ayuda a bajar la OT)

La comunicación efectiva es clave cuando se trata de programar durante las vacaciones. Comience por comunicar su plan de programación con antelación y hágalo repetidamente para asegurarse de que todo el mundo está de acuerdo. Si su centro de contacto está abierto en un día festivo y el volumen es menor, solicite voluntarios entre sus agentes para cubrir la base y luego asigne las horas restantes, que normalmente recaerán en los agentes de menor antigüedad, pero recuerde prever una reducción mayor para los agentes que no se ofrecieron voluntarios.

Si su centro cierra un día festivo, considere la posibilidad de trasladar a los empleados que normalmente tienen previsto trabajar ese día a uno de sus días libres entre semana. De este modo, podrá utilizar más horas de personal sin incurrir en horas extraordinarias.

Para tener en cuenta un mayor volumen después de las vacaciones, añada horas a los horarios de los días siguientes.  Por ejemplo, si cierra el lunes, añada 2 horas a los horarios de los agentes el martes y 2 horas el miércoles antes o al final de los turnos.  Sí, es como las horas extras obligatorias, pero incluir las horas extra en la programación de vacaciones y explicar la razón por la que es inevitable siempre es útil.

Insista a sus stakeholders en que el trabajo en equipo es vital para superar las festividades, y que una cantidad manejable de dolor por parte de todos los miembros del equipo ayudará a evitar que se acumule una cantidad insoportable de horas extras en unos pocos agentes desafortunados.  Además, asegúrese de tener en cuenta cualquier restricción estatal o laboral/sindical a la hora de realizar cambios.

No es mala idea mantener un exceso de personal para hacer frente a picos de volumen inesperados. Esto le permite ofrecer Tiempo Libre Voluntario (Voluntary Time Off or VTO) como forma de gestionar la carga de trabajo sin tener que recurrir a las horas extraordinarias o hacer un esfuerzo de última hora para obligar a los agentes a trabajar más horas. Si aún no lo ha hecho este año, considere la posibilidad de realizar ofertas anuales de vacaciones en el futuro para ayudar a repartir equitativamente la carga de horas extra entre sus agentes. Rote anualmente las asignaciones de vacaciones para evitar que los empleados trabajen los mismos días festivos cada año.

Tecnología

La colaboración con sus equipos de telecomunicaciones y TI es crucial para garantizar que su centro tenga la capacidad de gestionar el volumen de contactos previsto en los días punta. Si su centro utiliza troncales SIP basadas en la nube que ofrecen la elasticidad necesaria para gestionar automáticamente los picos, es increíble, pero asegúrese de que su infraestructura puede gestionar el aumento del volumen de contactos. Un ejemplo real de uno de los miembros del equipo de diseño de llamadas fue un lunes después de Acción de Gracias en el que el centro de contacto se quedó sin licencias de Citrix y los agentes no pudieron iniciar sesión para atender llamadas de voz.

Prepárese para un volumen elevado incorporando mensajes en su IVR para notificar a los clientes los posibles tiempos de espera prolongados; esto también puede ayudar a desviar las llamadas a otros canales si están disponibles. La comunicación regular con su departamento de TI también puede ayudarle a estar al tanto de cualquier congelación de la tecnología de TI prevista para finales de año.

Además, asegúrese de aprovechar al máximo la funcionalidad de cara al agente y al supervisor que debe ofrecer su software de WFM: comunicar los últimos cambios de horario a los teléfonos móviles de los agentes les mantiene al tanto de cualquier cambio repentino que el equipo de WFM tenga que hacer, incluso si los agentes no están conectados. La capacidad de enviar ofertas automatizadas de VOT/VTO en cualquier momento es extremadamente útil, y la capacidad de procesar estas solicitudes automáticamente permite al equipo de WFM responder rápidamente, lo que es crucial durante un cambio repentino en el volumen de contactos.

La oferta de turnos flexibles (shift bidding) puede ayudar a que esas 2 horas extra añadidas a su horario pasen de ser obligatorios (que no sólo son desmoralizadores, sino que además podrían distribuirse de forma desigual accidental, haciendo que algunos agentes se sientan injustamente aprovechados) a experiencias más voluntarias que permitan a los agentes que quieran horas extra elegir solicitarlas cuando estén disponibles.

Por último, las capacidades de previsión What-If son una herramienta extremadamente valiosa para permitirle hacer planes de contingencia para: la posibilidad de cambios repentinos de volumen o AHT y los beneficios de desviar llamadas a canales digitales.

Coordinación (sharing is caring)

La comunicación eficaz con otros departamentos es vital. Manténgase en sintonía con su equipo de marketing y ayúdeles a comprender el impacto de las campañas de marketing que aumentan el volumen de ventas durante las temporadas de gran volumen. También debe coordinarse con Formación y Recursos Humanos para asegurarse de que completan cualquier formación necesaria para los empleados antes de las vacaciones.

Identifique y busque recursos formados disponibles que puedan estar de guardia para apoyar al centro de contacto en caso necesario. Los supervisores, formadores y empleados de back-office pueden servir de apoyo para diversos tipos de contactos con los clientes.

Los sectores de las aerolíneas y el comercio minorista han puesto de relieve la necesidad de planificarse a uno mismo y a sus socios antes de la temporada de vacaciones y rebajas, especialmente si hay socios de BPO implicados. Además de garantizar la exactitud de las previsiones, es necesario asegurar una dotación de personal adecuada, tanto interna como externamente. Los socios de BPO deben ser notificados lo antes posible sobre el personal que se requiere de ellos para que puedan llevar a cabo la contratación y la formación adecuadas para la demanda adicional.

¿Deprimido por el frío? Ponte en contacto con nosotros

La mayoría de los que trabajamos en Call Design sabemos perfectamente cómo se siente el equipo de WFM en esta época del año. Si este año ha recibido carbón en su calcetín de WFM, estamos aquí para ayudarle. Póngase en contacto con nosotros si necesita ayuda para enfrentarse a los retos de previsión y programación que surgen en el cuarto trimestre.

-Asombrosos consejos de Kary Horsley, con la ayuda de Ken Tse y Nathan Hollman. Traducción al español por Rosy Barrera.

Holiday Season Scheduling: Are You Ready for The Most Wonderful Time of the Year?

The Q4 holiday season is here, that time of year when the demands placed on the Workforce Management (WFM) team are the most challenging. One after another they come: Thanksgiving, Black Friday, Cyber Monday, Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, and New Year’s Day, when contact centers must balance the extremes of what customers want and what agents want.

On our Wish List for this blog: specific planning considerations that can help your WFM team strike that essential balance and win the Q4 Holiday Season.

Your WFM Team (The Gift that keeps on giving)

Even the worst Grinch in a contact center has to acknowledge the pivotal role of the WFM team during the holiday season. Their expertise and problem-solving insights play a huge part in determining whether a contact center’s holidays are Happy and Bright or will become a Blue Christmas.

It’s not just about meeting customer demands; it’s also about ensuring that your agents have the flexibility to spend time with their families. You don’t need Winter Warlock magic to make both the customers and the agents happy— proper planning and communication can help make it work.

Let’s dive into four key categories that will guide you through the process: Forecasting, Scheduling, Technology, and Coordinating with other Departments.

Forecasting (Not all holidays are the same)

Forecasting is the foundation of a successful Q4 season. Review previous holiday volumes, shrinkages, and any changes in customer behavior during the season. In these times of change, compare data from multiple years to create a more accurate forecast. Remember that not all of the holidays have the same predictable impact.

Thanksgiving is normally easier to predict since it’s a Thursday, just as you know what days Black Friday and Cyber Monday fall on. However, the actual date of Thanksgiving changes, and if your industry has end-of-month sales, you may be looking at a Cyber Monday + EoM promotional environment. Christmas and New Year’s are also challenging to project with the floating days and the observed days that go along with them, impacting volume in different ways depending on the day of the week they fall on, and how it changes from year to year. The key is to consider how the holidays may be the same year-over-year, and how they may change based upon new promotions.

Scheduling (A spoonful of sugar helps the OT go down)

Effective communication is key when it comes to scheduling during the holiday season. Start by communicating your scheduling plan early and do it repeatedly to ensure everyone is on the same page. If your contact center is open on a holiday and the volume is lower, solicit volunteers among your agents to cover the base and then assign the remaining hours—usually these will fall on lowest-tenure agents, but remember to plan for higher shrinkage for the agents who didn’t volunteer.

If your center is closed on a holiday, consider moving employees normally scheduled to work on that day to one of their off days during the week. This approach allows you to utilize additional staffed hours without incurring overtime rates.

To account for higher volume post-Holiday, add hours to schedules on the days following.  For example, if you are closed on Monday, add 2 hours to agent schedules on Tuesday and 2 hours on Wednesday before or at the end of the shifts.  Yes, it’s like mandatory OT, but wrapping the extra hours in with Holiday Scheduling and explaining the reason why this is unavoidable are always helpful.

Emphasize to your stakeholders that a team effort is vital to navigating the Holiday Season, and a manageable amount of pain from everyone on the team will help to avoid an unbearable amount of OT piling up on a few unfortunate agents.  Also, make sure to take into consideration any state or labor/union restrictions when making changes.

It’s not a bad idea to maintain excess staffing to handle unexpected volume spikes. This allows you to offer Voluntary Time Off (VTO) as a way to manage workloads without resorting to overtime or scrambling at the last minute to force agents to work extra hours. If you haven’t already done it this year, consider conducting yearly holiday bids in the future to help distribute the burden of extra hours fairly among your agents. Rotate holiday assignments yearly to prevent employees from working the same holidays each year.

Technology (No fast busies!)

Collaboration with your Telecom and IT teams is crucial to ensure that your center has the capacity to handle the expected contact volume on peak days. If your center uses cloud-based SIP trunking that offers the elasticity needed to automatically handle spikes, that’s amazing, but make sure your infrastructure can handle the increased contact volume. A real example from one of the Call Design team members was a Monday after Thanksgiving where the contact center ran out of Citrix licenses and agents could not log in to take voice calls!

Prepare for high volume by incorporating messages in your IVR to notify customers of potential long hold times; this can also help deflect calls to other channels if available. Regular communication with your IT department can also help keep you aware of any IT technology freezes scheduled for the end of the year.

Also, be sure to take full advantage of the agent- and supervisor-facing functionality that your WFM software should offer: communicating the latest schedule changes to agents’ cell phones keeps them aware of any sudden changes the WFM Team has to make, even if the agents are not online. The ability to push out automated VOT/VTO offers at a moment’s notice is extremely helpful, and the ability to process these requests automatically allows the WFM Team to respond quickly, which is crucial during a sudden contact volume change.

Flexible shift bidding can help turn those 2-extra-hours-to-your-schedule additions from mandatory edicts (which are not only demoralizing, but also might accidentally be distributed unevenly, making some agents feel unfairly taken advantage of) to more voluntary experiences that allow agents who want extra hours to choose to apply for them when they are available.

Lastly, What-If forecasting capabilities are an extremely valuable tool to allow you make contingency plans for: the possibility of sudden volume or AHT changes and the benefits of deflecting calls to digital channels.

Coordinating (Sharing is caring)

Effective communication with other departments is vital. Be in sync with your Marketing team and help them understand the impact of volume-increasing marketing drops that are timed during high volume seasons. You should also coordinate with Training and HR to be sure they complete any required employee training before the holidays.

Identify and source available trained resources that can be on-call to support the contact center if needed. Supervisors, trainers, and back-office workers can serve as backup support for various types of customer contacts.

The airline and retail industries have highlighted the need to plan for yourself and your partners in advance of the holiday and sale season, especially if there are BPO partners involved. As well as ensuring forecast accuracy, there’s the need to ensure adequate staffing both internally and externally. BPO partners should be notified as early as possible about the staffing required from them so they can conduct appropriate hiring and training for additional demand.


Snow Miser Got You Down? Contact us!

Having lived through it ourselves, most of us here at Call Design know exactly how the WFM Team feels at this time of year. If you got coal in your WFM stocking this year, we’re here to help. Contact us if you need support facing the forecasting and scheduling challenges that come around in Q4.

-Amazing advice by Kary Horsley, with assistance from Ken Tse and Nathan Hollman. Rankin/Bass references by Shawn McCormick

WFM: The Missing Link in Your Strategic Vision

WFM teams can be, and should be, part of the strategic planning process. Unfortunately, though, Call Design has seen dozens of organizations that don’t understand why. Sometimes it’s the leadership above the WFM team that doesn’t get it, and other times it’s the leadership in the WFM team. Regardless of who doesn’t get it, we believe that WFM teams are critical to the success of every organization because of their added value to the strategic planning process.

To the Leaders Above WFM Teams:

One – We Sit at the Crossroads of the Organization:

As WFM professionals, we have a unique perspective that allows us to witness the intersections of various organizational functions. By being at the forefront of operations, we can identify opportunities to drive efficiencies, cut costs, and optimize resources. Our insight into the intricacies of agent management and scheduling positions us to contribute significantly to strategic planning discussions.

Two – Front Row Seats to Improve Agent Lives:

Happy, engaged, fulfilled, and aligned (HEFA) employees are the backbone of any successful organization. WFM plays a crucial role in shaping the work environment for agents. By involving WFM in the strategic planning process, leaders can leverage our expertise to design flexible schedules and implement automation solutions that enhance agent satisfaction. Happier agents lead to improved customer experiences, reduced turnover, and increased productivity. And that’s a strategic advantage!

Three – Early Adoption of Data-Driven Decision-Making:

Long before the term “data-driven” became popular, WFM teams have relied on data and analytics to optimize call center operations. By incorporating WFM into the strategic planning process, organizations can tap into our wealth of data and insights to inform future forecasts, resource allocation, and performance measurement. WFM professionals are well-equipped to guide organizations toward evidence-based decision-making and help align strategic goals with operational realities.

Four – Maximizing Cost Efficiency Through Resource Optimization:

One of the key contributions of WFM teams to the strategic planning process lies in their ability to drive cost savings through effective scheduling of resources and accurate forecasting. By leveraging historical data, advanced analytics, and industry expertise, WFM professionals can optimize staffing levels, align them with anticipated demand, and minimize overstaffing or understaffing situations. This proactive approach not only improves operational efficiency but also helps organizations allocate resources more judiciously, resulting in significant cost savings. By involving WFM teams in strategic discussions, leaders can harness their knowledge and insights to make informed decisions that directly impact the bottom line. Embracing WFM’s expertise in resource management is a strategic imperative for organizations seeking to achieve sustainable financial success while maintaining operational excellence.

We’re more than just the team that produces schedules and makes sure people are adhering to their schedules. The nature of our team requires us to hear from differing voices, digest qualitative and quantitative data, and make sure that appropriately balance the business, customer, and agent needs. If there was ever a team that needed to be at the table of strategic planning, it’s us!

To the Leaders In WFM Teams:

One – Don’t Just Focus on Tactics, Look Up and Consider the Strategic Direction:

While tactical execution is essential, as WFM leaders we must broaden our perspectives and align our efforts with the overarching strategic goals of the organization. Whether you want to positively impact your team, make a bunch of money, get promoted, or feel like you’re making a difference, all of these paths lead towards you participating in strategic planning. The best way for you to accomplish your goals is to elevate your impact past just tactics and start thinking strategically for your organization.   

Two – Manage Up:

Building strong relationships with leaders above the WFM team is crucial for gaining recognition and influence. Proactively engage with senior management, provide regular updates on WFM initiatives, and articulate the value that effective WFM brings to the organization. By effectively managing up, we can secure a seat at the strategic planning table.

Three – Support Others First:

To become trusted advisors, we should approach strategic planning discussions with a mindset of support and collaboration. By actively listening to and understanding the needs and challenges of other departments, we can tailor our contributions to align with broader organizational objectives. By demonstrating a commitment to supporting others, we can earn the trust and respect necessary to lead strategic conversations.

Four – Lead with Expertise and Influence:

As WFM leaders, we possess a wealth of knowledge and experience in optimizing operations, enhancing customer experiences, and driving employee engagement. By confidently showcasing our expertise and providing strategic recommendations, we can shape discussions and guide decision-making. By becoming influential voices within our organizations, we can elevate the role of WFM and solidify its position in the strategic planning process.

Integrating WFM into the strategic planning process is a win-win situation for organizations and their WFM teams. By recognizing the unique insights and contributions of WFM professionals, leaders can unlock opportunities for operational efficiencies, agent satisfaction, and overall business success. Embracing WFM as a strategic asset paves the way for a future where organizations thrive, employees are happy, engaged, fulfilled, and aligned, and customer experiences are exceptional.

Remember, WFM is more than just a tactical function; it is a strategic enabler that empowers organizations to achieve their goals while creating a fulfilling work environment for employees. Let’s work together to elevate the role of WFM and drive positive change within our organizations.

Dan Smitley

Embracing the AI Revolution in Contact Centers: A People Centric Approach

The world of contact centers has been buzzing with talk of AI for years. From IVR systems and self-service solutions to chatbots and automated email responses, technology has been steadily transforming the industry. But now, it’s different. The advancements in AI technology and its widespread adoption have brought us to a new era. The landscape is shifting, and with it comes a sense of excitement and apprehension. In this blog, we’ll dive into the crucial aspects of dealing with AI in contact centers, exploring whether to embrace it or not, how to think about AI in a people-centric way, and practical steps to prepare for the inevitable changes that lie ahead.

Is this discussion really all that new?

Not really. The truth is, we’ve been anticipating the integration of AI in contact centers for quite some time now. Whether it’s IVR, self-service, chat bots, or email, these technological advancements have been transforming the contact center landscape for years, if not decades. However, what truly sets the current situation apart are the significant strides in technology and adoption. The AI revolution is no longer a distant possibility; it’s already in full swing. As we navigate this new reality, we must acknowledge that AI is set to make a profound impact, and it’s happening now. According to a recent CCW report, 71% of contact center leaders anticipate generative AI making a major impact. As of May 2023, a staggering 85% of American workers have already utilized AI in their work tasks. So, while the idea of AI in contact centers might not be entirely new, the current advancements and adoption rates demand our serious attention.

Should we embrace it or run from it?

The question on everyone’s minds is whether to embrace AI or approach it with caution. The reality is that every organization is on its own unique journey towards AI and transformational technology. It doesn’t matter if you’re a small company seeking to streamline processes or a large corporation looking to automate entire divisions. The key is to take that first step, irrespective of your starting point. As the technological advancements and AI’s influence become more pronounced, some may feel tempted to jump to extreme conclusions about its consequences. However, it’s important to resist those urges. AI is unlikely to lead to universal basic income programs or take over the world. Rather, we are experiencing a “printing press moment,” where the potential of AI is evident, yet its effects remain minimal in the short term. In the long run, AI will enhance productivity by complementing human capabilities. While some support roles may be impacted, the core value of human interaction and expertise will endure.

How we should be thinking about AI in contact centers?

To understand AI’s role in contact centers, let’s draw a parallel with the farming industry. In the past, farming was necessary for families and towns to survive. As technology advanced, fewer people needed to farm, and large-scale operations became prevalent. Similarly, technology has been enabling organizations to offload certain contact center tasks, allowing Business Process Outsourcers (BPOs) to handle the work more efficiently. With the integration of AI into contact centers, there may be further consolidation of these tasks. However, just as farmers’ markets continue to thrive in some cities, there will still be value for companies to maintain their own contact centers, especially if they can provide unique, personalized experiences. It is the middle ground, focusing on the balance between automation and human touch, that will likely get squeezed. Smaller and niche contact centers can differentiate themselves by delivering exceptional customer experiences. Meanwhile, larger centers may opt to outsource certain interactions to BPOs that can efficiently handle high volumes.

We can draw another comparison to restaurants. When we dine out, we don’t visit McDonald’s expecting a Michelin star experience. The quality and speed of service are vastly different. Similarly, AI can provide quick, automated experiences for low-hanging fruit in contact centers, streamlining processes and reducing response times. Some organizations may choose to focus here, catering to customers who prioritize efficiency over personalization. However, others will realize that a more leisurely and personalized experience still holds value for their customers. They understand that some queries or issues require the human touch to be fully addressed.

Even with the increasing automation, the core truth remains—behind all the AI and technology, there is still a person who can solve your problem. While the landscape of contact centers may have evolved, there are still contact centers, albeit they may look different. The key is understanding the expectations of your customers and delivering accordingly. Just as you wouldn’t serve fast food to someone expecting a gourmet meal, you shouldn’t expect fast-food customers to wait for an elaborate dining experience. Balancing the right level of automation and human interaction is the key to successful AI implementation in contact centers.

What steps can be taken now?

As the AI revolution unfolds, there are practical steps you can take to prepare yourself and your contact center for the changes ahead. Start by engaging in meaningful conversations with your current vendors to understand their AI plans and platform direction. Experiment with generative AI in your own environment by automating tasks such as email responses and note summaries. While technology is essential, don’t forget the power of soft skills. Focus on upskilling yourself and your team in areas like empathy and kindness, as these uniquely human qualities will continue to add significant value in a world where AI and automation handle much of the heavy lifting. Additionally, educate your contact center agents about the evolving landscape, centered on helping them grow and thrive rather than replacing them.

The journey of AI in contact centers is neither new nor unfamiliar. We’ve been anticipating its impact for years, but now, with unprecedented technological advancements and widespread adoption, it’s time to face this new reality. Instead of fearing the changes ahead, we should embrace the opportunities that AI presents. As we navigate this landscape, let’s remember the value of human touch and empathy, and how these qualities will continue to play a pivotal role in creating exceptional customer experiences. At Call Design, we are committed to helping you prepare for the AI revolution, empowering your WFM teams to become strategic assets within your organization. Together, let’s forge a path that elevates your contact center, enhances employee fulfillment, and aligns your business for a successful future in the era of AI. Reach out to us today, and let’s embark on this transformative journey together!

Back-to-School: Forecasting 101 Mastering the Art of Predicting Contact Center Demand

As the summer sun sets and the back-to-school season approaches, it’s time to sharpen our pencils, gather our knowledge, and delve into the fundamentals of forecasting in the contact center world. Just like students preparing for a new academic year, contact center professionals must equip themselves with the essential techniques to predict future contacts with precision and finesse. Welcome to “Forecasting 101,” where we’ll guide you through the key concepts of forecasting and equip you with the tools to excel in this critical aspect of contact center operations.

You can also find additional tips in Laura’s blog on forecasting for back-office: Unleashing the Potential of Back-Office WFM: Mastering the Forecasting Challenge.

Introduction: Unraveling the Mystery of Forecasting

In the world of contact centers, forecasting plays a crucial role in predicting the future. It’s the process of using historical data and trends to anticipate the volume of incoming contacts, such as calls, chats, and emails. The insights gained from forecasting are instrumental in making informed decisions about staffing, capacity planning, and budgeting.

Let’s take a closer look at the different types of forecasts used in the contact center environment:

  1. Long-term forecast: Spanning from 6 months to 2+ years, this forecast provides a broader view of future contact volumes.
  2. Mid-range forecast: Covering 3 to 6 months, this forecast helps contact centers plan for the medium term.
  3. Short-term forecast: Encompassing one week to 3 months, this forecast focuses on immediate needs.
  4. Daily forecast: This forecast provides a daily snapshot of expected contact volumes.
  5. Intra-day or Interval level forecast: The most detailed forecast, it predicts contact volumes in smaller time increments.

In contact centers, different teams handle various forecasts—the Forecaster, Planner, and Scheduler each contribute their expertise to this complex process.

The Journey of Forecasting: From Data to Patterns

The first step in forecasting is collecting relevant historical data. This data, typically derived from the contact center’s ACD, SQL, PowerBI, or other reliable sources, should cover a timeframe of 1-3 years, if available. Metrics such as contacts handled, contacts abandoned, contacts offered, and average handle time are essential for accurate forecasting. Additional metrics like chat concurrency, IVR, web, or chat deflection rates add depth to the analysis.

Next comes the analysis of patterns in the data. Identifying seasonality, trends, and other significant patterns helps in refining the forecast. Removing outliers and normalizing days with extraordinary events, such as holidays or severe weather impacts, ensure the forecast’s accuracy.

Continuous Improvement: The Refinement Process

Forecasting is not a one-time task but an ongoing journey of improvement. By analyzing forecast errors and discrepancies, contact centers can enhance their forecasting models. Adjusting parameters and incorporating new data sources contribute to the accuracy of future forecasts. Consideration of upcoming marketing campaigns or events helps prepare for potential impacts on contact volumes.

Keeping a Watchful Eye: Monitoring and Adaptation

Once the forecast is set, it requires continuous monitoring and tracking. As new data becomes available, contact centers must update their forecasts to adapt to changing conditions and trends. Regularly reviewing forecast performance ensures it remains relevant and aligned with the contact center’s needs.

Unraveling Variance: The Detective Work

Sometimes, the forecast may not align with actual results, creating variance. In such cases, contact centers need to investigate the reasons behind the discrepancy. Is it due to marketing campaigns, changes in IVR or web pages, or other factors? Talking to frontline employees can provide valuable insights into the drivers behind the variance.

Side note: Check out our very own Nate chat about the importance of machine + human logic when it comes to forecasting in this quick video.

Understanding the Magic and Limitations

While forecasting is a powerful tool, it’s important to recognize its limitations. It’s not an exact science, and there will always be some degree of uncertainty. Contact centers should be aware of the assumptions and constraints of their forecasting models. Rather than seeking absolute predictions, forecasting is about making well-informed decisions based on available data.

Enroll with Call Design – Your Partner in Forecasting Excellence

Are you ready to ace the art of forecasting? As you embark on your journey to excellence, Call Design stands by your side as your partner in forecasting and Workforce Management (WFM) endeavors. Our team of seasoned experts is eager to guide you through the intricacies of forecasting, ensuring you are well-prepared for any challenges that lie ahead. As the back-to-school season commences, don’t miss the opportunity to elevate your contact center’s performance with stellar forecasting. Reach out to Call Design today, and let’s embark on a transformative journey together. With “Forecasting 101” under your belt, you’ll be well-prepared to navigate the path to success in your contact center’s future endeavors.

Kary Horsley

From Collaboration to Confidence: Building Leadership Buy-in For WFM Strategies

In the quest for operational efficiency, back offices can harness the power of WFM through forecasting accuracy. Forecasting accuracy is one key factor that contributes to leadership buy-in. 

Gaining the Back Office management buy-in is crucial for the success of the WFM strategy. As WFM experts, our goal is to engage with and provide insights/guidance to our business leaders and all influencing departments, including HR. 

All team managers have a requirement to understand workload demand, impacts, drivers, and the resources required to service the work. They are challenged with understanding and justifying their staff requirements to ensure they can meet their objectives and service the demand. In my many years of working with leaders, there is a common theme. Managers know their business; they know their staff and they’ve acquired that knowledge without the use of WFM tools, but by working it out the hard way! Understandably, this can create a sense of protection over their information and their staff. 

So, the challenge is how do you get them to share that knowledge?  It’s important to set expectations as to our intentions, responsibility, objective, and purpose. We intend to work collaboratively, to complement and support them, to achieve common goals. For them, our supporting will free up some of their time to allow focus on other activities such as coaching, developing and support their staff, working on process improvements, completing administration tasks, and so on…

A robust workforce management plan is an art and a science. While we excel in the scientific aspects and have strong knowledge of the practicalities of forecasting – the artistic side lies in acquiring insights through collaboration with leaders, accumulating collective knowledge on the driving influencers of demand over time, and applying this knowledge and lessons learned to the forecast. 

By leveraging our Back Office leaders’ knowledge and supporting open and consistent communication, we can build leadership confidence and trust in the WFM process. Two of the best ways to build that confidence are being able to clearly articulate the benefits of forecasting to leadership and establishing an effective operating rhythm. Here are some ways to do just that!

Benefits of Forecasting Accuracy:

  1. Business Performance Evaluation: Accurate forecasting allows businesses to evaluate their performance by comparing results with forecast predictions. This evaluation helps identify areas for improvement and assess the customer impact. 
  2. Decision-Making with Confidence: Reliable forecasts provide leaders with the necessary information to make informed decisions across various business functions. Having confidence in the accuracy of forecasts helps drive strategic decisions, resource allocation, and operational planning.
  3. Resource Optimization: Accurate forecasts enable organizations to allocate resources effectively. Right people, right skill, right place, right time. Optimization of resources improves operational efficiency and productivity.
  4. Risk Mitigation: With reliable forecasts, businesses can proactively identify risks and develop contingency plans to mitigate them effectively. This proactive approach minimizes the impact of unforeseen events and changes in demand.
  5. Stakeholder Confidence: By providing reliable forecasts, leaders can demonstrate their competency and transparency, strengthening their relationship with their stakeholders and staff.
  6. Continuous Improvement: By analyzing forecast deviations and identifying problem areas, organizations can refine their forecasting models, data sources, and methodologies. This iterative process leads to better employee engagement, enhanced customer experience, and operational efficiency.
  7. Performance Benchmarks: Forecast accuracy allows businesses to benchmark their performance against industry standards and internal targets. It provides insights into areas of improvement, drives innovation, and encourages the adoption of internal best practices across the organization. 

A well-designed operating rhythm sets the stage for decision-making, collaboration, and accountability.  

Effective Operating Rhythm:

  1. Clear Communication: Encourage alignment and effective collaboration by establishing clear communication channels. This includes regular meetings, status updates, and feedback sessions. Being a trusted advisor means providing accurate and timely information, addressing concerns, and facilitating resolution of issues. Building strong communication channels fosters transparency and trust.   
  2. Structured Workflow: Define roles, responsibilities, and accountability. Clearly outlining each role’s responsibilities helps avoid confusion, duplication of effort, and gaps. Collaboration is the key to ensuring a smooth transition of handoffs and seamless coordination. 
  3. Prioritization and Time Management: Optimize results by prioritizing and managing time effectively. Prioritize the jobs to be done and ensure the timely delivery of useful information. Keep a record of any deviations and document the outcomes and lessons learned. You will be held somewhat accountable for the outcomes, so collaborate with your leaders to define priority tasks and manage your time effectively.
  4. Continuous Improvement: Foster a culture of improvement through evaluation and feedback. Regularly assess processes and identify areas requiring improvement and potential opportunities for innovation. 
  5. Training and Skill Development: Investing in employee development and leadership training is crucial for building a capable and high-performing workforce. Providing training to the leadership team and staff, on the principles of workforce management, can equip them with the necessary knowledge and tools to excel in their role. 
  6. Performance Monitoring and Metrics: Document the established KPIs between Leadership and WFM. Regularly monitor and measure progress against these metrics to gauge performance and identify strengths, weaknesses, and opportunities for improvement. 

As WFM experts, our primary objective is to provide valuable insights and business guidance. We recognize that the transition can be challenging to overcome. By fostering a collaborative environment and valuing the leaders’ experience, we can bridge the gap between science and knowledge, enhancing the effectiveness of the WFM strategy. 

This partnership approach not only facilitates the successful implementation of WFM initiatives but also fosters confidence and trust between WFM experts and business leaders. At Call Design, we are committed to enabling our clients to overcome challenges that drive positive change within their organizations.  Contact us today to learn how we can partner with you in achieving your business outcomes and empowering your back office workforce. Together, let’s unlock the full potential of your operations and create a happy, engaged, fulfilled, and aligned work environment.

Leading with Empathy: Showing Your Servant Leadership Style in the Interview Process

Interviewing can be a nerve-wracking experience for candidates, but have you ever considered how you as the interviewer can make the process more comfortable and positive? As a leader, you have the power to demonstrate your values even during the hiring process. By serving and supporting the interviewee, you can communicate your qualities as a servant leader and ensure a more productive, respectful interview. Here are a few strategies for serving potential hires:

1. Help them reset in an interview

Interviews can be incredibly stressful for people and that stress can turn into an anxious spiral of death. Becoming more and more flustered as they can’t think of an answer, they’re confident they’re bombing the interview, and they’re pretty sure you can see they’re sweating through their shirt even through the fuzzy Teams connection. As a servant leader try to help them out by changing course, allowing them to settle in, and know it’s a safe place.

In one interview I was chatting with someone that had been distracted by their roommate coming in unexpectedly. They weren’t sure if they should get up to close the door or stay on camera. Also, their line of thinking was interrupted and they were clearly starting to spiral. Unable to answer my questions and re-center on the topic. To help them out I shifted to questions they knew backward and forwards. 

“You mentioned that you had some cats. How many? What kinds? What are their names? How old?”

This allowed the interviewee to get out of their anxiety spiral and into a space that they knew and loved, their cats! After a few minutes of small talk, we jumped back into the questions related to the job and the company. However, this quick detour helped because:

A) it created a safe space for them to reset and refocus on the interview

B) it showed them the type of boss I would be (one that asks hard questions but also cares about your cats)

Note, I didn’t change my questions or make them easier because they had started to spiral. I didn’t lower the bar for the interview to be successful. However, I was able to create an environment that signaled the interviewee was safe here and that I wanted them to be successful. Being able to serve them, even in an interview, helps them understand the type of boss I am and what they are getting themselves into by working with me. 

2. Connect them with other opportunities in the organization

I’ve interviewed multiple people that blew me away. They had strong experience, excellent answers, and clearly understood the vision of the organization. The only problem is that they weren’t right for my team. Maybe their experience didn’t match what I needed or their answers indicated they were looking for a more senior role. In these situations you can serve them by connecting them to other leaders and roles in the organization.

Oh, and be honest about where you’re at with them. I’ve said, more than once, “I don’t want to hire you but I do want to work with you!” Let them know why your role isn’t the right fit but how you are going to try and find another way for them to join the organization.

3. Provide genuine and honest feedback after or even during the interview

As someone that has done his fair share of being interviewed, I know how frustrating it can be to feel like you’ve aced the interview only to hear “There were many qualified candidates…” You wish the company well on their search and ask for any feedback they have on how you could have positioned yourself better, and then crickets. Not one ounce of feedback. I’ve even had companies tell me that they aren’t allowed to provide that information.

One more way you can serve people before they join your team is by helping them improve their interviewing skills and answers. 

One of my favorite questions to ask is simply “Why should I hire you?” The whole interview can feel a bit like a sales pitch at times but this one makes it super crystal clear “Alright, give me your best pitch.” What I’m looking for is how well do they know themselves and their unique value add. I’m less interested in their specific brand or value add and more interested in their self-awareness. On more than a few occasions I’ve gotten the cliché “because I’m a hard worker… quick learned… self-starter… eager to learn…” and while all of those may be true I tend to think they are giving me the answer that they think I want.

In some situations, I’ve tried to coach them away from those answers. Helping them see that their wide background is a huge asset as it allows them to understand the language of many teams around us and be a critical collaborator for the team. Or that they may be inexperienced but they have intentionally and strategically built a strong network that they can tap into at any time. “I may not always know the answer to your questions, but I’m confident that I have someone in my network that I can tap that would know. By hiring me you are getting someone that is eager to learn, open to coaching, and has years of knowledge at my disposal through my network.”

Lastly and most obviously, if someone reaches out asking for feedback, actually give them some! For people that I thought would handle it well I’ve even given them the notes from the interview. Helping them see what I was thinking during the interview and the answer to ultimately why I didn’t extend them an offer. You have to be careful here because some of the notes can be a bit too honest for people and you may want to edit based on how well you know the person. In the end, though, providing any feedback will go a long way and is a small way for you to serve them.

Being a servant leader during the interview process can go a long way in creating a positive candidate experience and signaling the values of your organization. By helping potential hires reset, connecting them with other opportunities, and providing honest feedback, you can serve them even before they join your team. So, the next time you’re conducting an interview, remember to approach it with a servant leadership mindset and see how it can benefit both the candidate and your organization.

If you’re inspired to become a servant leader and create a work environment that is happy, engaged, fulfilled, and aligned, then Call Design North America is here to help. We believe that every employee deserves to have a meaningful and enjoyable work experience, and we can offer you practical tips and advice on how to achieve that. Contact us today to learn more about how we can partner with you to create a workplace where everyone can thrive.

– Dan Smitley

Breaking Down Barriers: How AI is Empowering Neurodivergent Individuals in the Workplace

Let me start by saying I’m no diversity expert, neurodivergent or otherwise. I own the fact that most of my experience comes from a position of the majority in America. White, male, heterosexual, cisgender, Christian, middle class, etc, etc. But I try to keep an open mind, eye, and ear to those different around me. I understand that they view problems differently than I do and can help me create a more holistic solution to issues (check out a recent Call Design blog about the importance of difference). I also realize that I can grow by trying to understand the perspectives of those different from me, which is exactly what happened when I recently hired a forecasting analyst with autism. Through my relationship with her, she has opened my eyes to the incredible value of AI and especially generative AI (ChatGPT, Google’s Bard, Bing Chat) for those that are neurodivergent and how it can help them function with more comfort, safety, and confidence in the workplace.

1 – One of the biggest impacts is communication. Platforms like ChatGPT can provide amazing translation services between people that think and function differently.

1a. Conversations, whether verbal or written, can be challenging for people that think differently than you do. The way that people off the spectrum connect dots is different than those on the spectrum. Generative AI allows people the opportunity to take emails or requests and translate them in a way that can make sense. “What is this person asking me to do” *paste copied email*. This option can empower them to not only execute their work quicker but reduces the anxiety that comes with asking someone to clarify for the second, fourth, or eighth time.

1b. Sometimes communication is easier with math. It’s straightforward and logical, and it avoids all of the nuances of communication. “This number has gone up because it’s bigger than what it was last month.” Even for people without communication challenges, such as myself, explaining how a calculation works can be confusing, even for the person that wrote it. “I know it works but give me a few minutes to try and explain it.” Generative AI can take a calculation and explain it in a common language for other people to understand. It can also expand upon data analysis and provide a storytelling approach to better relay and explain the importance of the data.

1c. We all know that generative AI can write emails and blogs (maybe it even helped with this blog!?!), but did you know that it can also remember your tone of voice? Often people with autism might miss or forget small nuances that soften requests in emails. So their emails may come across as blunt, harsh, or at worst, confrontational. Using AI to create their emails is an easy win, but it can feel inauthentic to use language and a tone of voice so different from their own. This is where teaching AI how to write for them comes in handy. It allows them a way to communicate with facts, statements, and logic that is comfortable for them but softened in a way that makes it easier for the end user to consume and interact with.

2 – AI is already impacting daily life for neurodivergent people in amazing ways.

2a. Neurodivergent doesn’t just mean autistic people, it also includes people with ADHD. ADHD makes it difficult for many people to remember tasks or stay on schedule. My wife (who has ADHD) is notorious for running late, hyper-focusing on something and then not finishing it, and getting lost in the story she’s telling someone. AI is already helping these individuals by allowing them to simply say “remember X appointment” or “remind me of so-and-so’s birthday”. The ability to simply say it out loud is huge. Because the calendar app might just be a few clicks away, but there are dozens of distractions on their phones waiting to trip them up from putting their next appointment into their schedule.

2b. AI can provide some basic companionship without the fear of judgment. Social interactions can be exceptionally triggering for some and the ability to have a conversation with a bot can allow them an element of companionship with minimal anxiety. This isn’t to say that I believe bots can replace humans but they can remove a small element of loneliness in a way that minimizes fear and stress. AI can also help them improve their communication skills by allowing them to practice interpreting someone’s communication and responding with an appropriate and logical next statement. That back and forth can be taxing but like with building muscle, with repeated practice it can get easier.

3 – AI will continue to evolve and provide additional help that may not be here yet. 

3a. Learning and remembering information is often a challenge for neurodivergent people. When you think differently, you’re likely going to learn differently as well. AI can help with this by providing personalized learning to both their learning style and ability. Personalized learning increases the chance for retention and use of information, regardless of personal limitations or challenges. However, for people with autism, this type of learning could greatly increase their ability to contribute to a professional environment and grow their career.

3b. I can also see where AI will eventually provide an on-screen explanation of when someone is getting frustrated, using sarcasm, or other communication cues that can be difficult for people with autism to pick up on. This real-time translation will empower people to pivot their conversation for greater effectiveness with their audience. AI will also be able to read the body language of people on video and help someone know when the audience is actively engaged or losing interest because they are fidgeting a lot or looking away from their monitor. These efforts will benefit everyone but will have a particularly positive impact on those that naturally are challenged with social cues and reading body language.

We still have a lot to learn about generative AI and we are only starting to see the beginnings of how it’s going to change our world. However, I am incredibly excited about how it’s already making a positive impact, especially for those that are neurodivergent. I know we may take a few steps back as we walk down the AI road, but I’m hopeful that platforms like Bard and chatGPT will only increase our ability to include people of differing backgrounds and perspectives and make them feel like they belong.


At Call Design we believe employees have the right to be Happy, Engaged, Fulfilled, and Aligned at work and that has to include intentional use of technology to bring in diverse voices. Reach out to us today if you’re interested in learning how you can build a similar culture for your contact center!

– Dan Smitley

5 Reasons why you need people to disagree with you

As someone who has spent a considerable amount of time in the contact center space, I’ve learned a lot about the importance of having people around you who will disagree with you. Sure, it may feel easier or more about “culture fit” to have a bunch of people agreeing with you, but the benefits of having people around you who will challenge your ideas, push back on your assumptions, and help you see things from a different perspective are numerous!

First and foremost, having people who disagree with you helps refine your ideas and produce a better product. In contact centers this is especially important because customer experience is king here. If you have a team of people who all think the same way, you run the risk of missing important details that could make or break the customer experience. Having people who are willing to speak up and challenge your assumptions can help you see things from a different perspective and ultimately improve the product or service you’re offering.

Secondly, people come from different backgrounds and will provide different perspectives on the same problem. This is incredibly valuable in contact centers because your customers are not the same as you. They have different backgrounds, experiences, and desires. Having a team full of people from different backgrounds and skill sets can help you approach these challenges in a more holistic way. For example, someone with a background in psychology might approach a problem related to agent burnout in a different way than someone with a background in engineering. Having both perspectives can help you find a more comprehensive solutions to both your customer and employee experiences.

Thirdly, you should always be learning. In fact, if you stop learning, you stop leading your organization. Having people around you who disagree gives you an amazing learing opportunity every day! By listening to their perspectives and ideas, you can broaden your own understanding of a particular issue or challenge.

Fourthly, disagreements protect you from falling into groupthink, where conformity is more important than critical thinking. If everyone on your team agrees on a particular approach or strategy, there’s a risk that you’ll overlook potential problems or issues. Having people who are willing to challenge you and the status quo can help continue to prioritize critical thinking and avoid groupthink. 

Finally, having people who disagree with you can help you grow emotionally and intellectually. It’s not always easy to hear that your ideas are flawed or that there’s a better way to approach a particular challenge. But learning to accept and embrace those perspectives can be incredibly beneficial in the long run. It can help you develop a growth mindset, where you’re constantly looking for ways to improve and evolve. 

Having people who disagree with you helps you refine your ideas, approach challenges from different perspectives, stay on top of the latest trends and best practices, avoid groupthink, and grow emotionally and intellectually. So if you’re a contact center manager or leader, make sure you’re surrounding yourself with people who will challenge you, push you, and help you be the best you can be. Your customers (and your team) will thank you for it.

– Dan Smitley